Question about colors (Unit 16)

[sinimmar]

Assalamu Alaikum Brothers and Sisters,

Please could someone explain:

The feminine and male colors are said to be diptotes. So why do all of these take "kasrah" when they are majroor (in the arabic key and book)? Please can you explain how should we approach colors?

[أبو سليمان]

Originally Posted by sinimmar

Assalamu Alaikum Brothers and Sisters,

Please could someone explain:

The feminine and male colors are said to be diptotes. So why do all of these take "kasrah" when they are majroor (in the arabic key and book)? Please can you explain how should we approach colors?

إنَّ الحمدَ للهِ , و الصلاةُ و السلامُ على من لا نبي بعده ,


أخي الكريم , أسأل اللهَ أن يُوَفِّقَك بفهم اللغة العربية ....آمين


أما الجواب عن السؤال فأبدأُ مستعيناً بالله عز و جل :


حَمْراءُ و أَحْمَرُ

Both of these are مَمْنُوع مِنَ الصرف "أي : يمنع من التَّنْوين diptote for two different reasons. the first one حَمْرَاءُ is because whenever a noun as two defects present within it or one defect that takes the place of two defects then as a result it cannot accept a tanween; and if it can not accept a tanween then when is in a gentive case مجرورٌ then it will substitute the kasrah for a fathah.

Now the word حَمْراءُ defect is called الْألفُ التَّأْنِيثُ (i.e. feminine alif) and this falls under the nouns that have a تاءُ المربوطة , as you probably noticed in book one that the feminine proper nouns do not have a tanween. the reason is because it has two defects within it. the first one is that is a proper noun (i.e. the name of a person) and the second is feminine (i.e. it has a تاء المربوطة ) . as for the previous word above حَمْراء it only as one defect taking the place of two defects so as a result it becomes ممنوع من الصرف .

the second word أحْمرُ is a diptote because its defect is that its pattern is similar to a verb, and in the arabic language when something is similar to another thing it takes on its characteristics as well; In this case, we all know that verbs cannot take a gentive case مجرور....ever.

Now as for the reason why these two words can carry a kasrah is because either the word becomes "added" to another word مُضافٌ or if it takes the difinite article الْ

Akhee, I pray to Allah that makes this small explanation a means to assist you in your studies of the Arabic Language.....Aameen

[sinimmar]

Dear Abu Sulaiman,

Thanks for your interest, but let me be sure about something:

1. كَتَبتُ بِقَلَمِ أحْمَدَ In this sentence Ahmad is diptote so it doesn't take kasra.

2. نحن نكتبُ بالْقَلَمِ الأزرقِ Now this diptote easily took kesra. Is it just because it has "AL" in front of it? If it is so, we should say:

نحن نكتبُ بقَلَمٍ أزرقَ if we erase the "AL".... Am I right?

[أبو سليمان]

الحمد لله وحده و الصلاةُ و السلامُ على من لا نبي بعده , و على آله و صبحه أجمعين


أما بعدُ : فيا أخا الكريم , أنت صحيحٌ في ذلك الأمر لعلك تفهم ذلك واضحاً ,

[irf2k]

Originally Posted by sinimmar

Dear Abu Sulaiman,

Thanks for your interest, but let me be sure about something:

1. كَتَبتُ بِقَلَمِ أحْمَدَ In this sentence Ahmad is diptote so it doesn't take kasra.

2. نحن نكتبُ بالْقَلَمِ الأزرقِ Now this diptote easily took kesra. Is it just because it has "AL" in front of it? If it is so, we should say:

نحن نكتبُ بقَلَمٍ أزرقَ if we erase the "AL".... Am I right?

Asslamu-alaikum

You are very correct in your conclusion. If a diptote (any diptote) is embellished (i.e. prefixed with) al- it declines as triptote.

Wasalam.

[Aaishah]

Originally Posted by sinimmar

1. كَتَبتُ بِقَلَمِ أحْمَدَ In this sentence Ahmad is diptote so it doesn't take kasra.

2. نحن نكتبُ بالْقَلَمِ الأزرقِ Now this diptote easily took kesra. Is it just because it has "AL" in front of it? If it is so, we should say:

نحن نكتبُ بقَلَمٍ أزرقَ if we erase the "AL".... Am I right?

wa ‘alaykumus salaam wa raHmatullaah Brother sinimmar,

Your deduction is correct as confirmed by Brother administrator, and discussed by Brother Abu Sulaymaan - jazaahumaa llaahu khayran.

The subject is discussed in depth, in Madinah Arabic, Book 3.

Here are some important parts quoted, including the principles governing the diptote - which cover colours and all other diptote nouns – such as those we learnt in Book 1.

Quote Madinah Bk 3, Key to L.34 ----------

I’raab of the Diptote

The jarr-ending of the diptote is fathah, instead of kasrah.

e.g.

دَرَسْتُ في مَدَارِسَ كَثِيرَةٍ.

“I studied in many schools.”

هذه كُتُبُ زَيْنَبَ.

“These are Zainab’s books”.

But it takes kasrah like a regular noun in the following two cases :

a) when it has the definite article –al.

e.g.

أُكْتُبْ بِالْْقَلَمِ الأَحْمَرِ.

‘Write with a red pen.’

In the Qur’aan (70:40) :

فَلاَ أُقْْسِمُ بِرَبِّ الْْمَشَارِقِ وَالْْْمَغَارِبِ إِنَّا لَقَادِرُونَ

‘But, nay! I swear by the Lord of the easts and the wests that We are indeed Able.’

b) When it is mudaaf.

e.g.

دَرَّسْتُ في مَدَارِسِ الْْمَدِينَةِ.

‘I taught in the schools of Madinah.’

In the Qur’aan (95:4) :

لَقَدْ خَلَقْْنَا الإِنْسَانَ في أَحْسَنِ تَقْوِيمٍ

‘We have indeed created man in the best stature’.

end quote----------

In our Shaykh’s range of classical aHaadiith collections - which are highly recommended for study after we complete the Madinah Books - our Shaykh provides ample texts, lexical and grammatical notes for the revision and deepening of, the Madinah Course knowledge.

Here is part of an extract from one of these books revising our knowledge of the diptote :

Quote pg 35 ---------------

فَمَرَرْتُ بِكَنِيسَةٍ مِنْ كَنَائِسِ النَّصَارَى،

(الحديثُ الكريمُ)

"I passed by a church of the Christians..."

:مِنْ كَنَائِسِ النَّصَارَى

A diptote is treated as a regular noun when it takes الْ or is mudaaf, e.g.

دَرَّسْتُ في هذه الْمَدَارِسِ.

‘I taught in these schools.’

([see] Duruus al-Lughah part 3, L. 34]

end quote ---------------

Ref:

البَاحِثُ عَنِ الْحَقِّ

From Esfahan to Madinah

In Search of Truth
Salman al-Farisi’s Hadith
(may Allah be pleased with him)

Arabic-English
(With Copious Lexical and Grammatical Notes)

by Dr. V. Abdur Rahim

The author’s introduction to the book, some student-feedback on it, and where to buy it, is here (reply #2) :

http://www.lqtoronto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242

I hope this was helpful.

Wassalaam

[sinimmar]

Thanks to you sister Aaishah. That was a good one. Now I understand clearly.

May Allah protect you!