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Old 04-29-2017, 10:55 PM
MIR MIR is offline
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Thumbs up khabar Muqaddam

السلام عليكم According to the Rules , if khabar muqaddam خبر مقدم is there then the mubtada should be indefinite. but book 1 lesson -11 question 5 فيها المديرُ Here the مبتدا is not indefinite, Why????
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جزاك الله خيرا
MIR
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:27 AM
Tanweer Tanweer is offline
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Wa'alaikumusSalam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIR View Post
According to the Rules , if khabar muqaddam خبر مقدم is there then the mubtada should be indefinite.
Actually, the rule is -- if the mubtada is indefinite, then the khabar should be muqaddam. We can not interpret this rule the other way round, as you did.

We know that typically mubtada is definite and it comes first, and khabar comes second. But this order can be reversed. Example: Instead of saying هذا عجيبٌ (This is strange) - which is the normal sentence, you can say عجيبٌ هذا (Strange is this !!) - which is an emphatic sentence. That means, you can bring the khabar forward, while the mubtada is still definite.

You will learn mubtada and khabar rules in Book 3, Lesson 11.

Last edited by Tanweer; 04-30-2017 at 04:40 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:58 PM
MIR MIR is offline
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brother Tanweer, as far i understand the rule explained that if the khabar comes first ( muqadam) and the mubtada(mu'akhkhar) should be indefinite, there are many examples in the Qura'n. It is not like that as you explained because Ustad Mehrali also mentioned this during his teaching. the example you have given in not fit here)عجيب هذا.
in Qura'n في قلوبهم مرضٌ. similarly, here فيها is muqaddam which is jar majrur and the mubtada i.e. المدير come definite, it suppose to be مديرٌ without al. Also that same lesson all the examples is given on basis of this rule are correct except this one. so if any one know this exactly please reply.. Thanks once again to brother Tanweer but with a great apology but it require more authentic explanation.
More, الرجل في البيت(the man in the house) if you reverse this then في البيت رجل( there is a man in the house) can you see the translation also changed.

Last edited by MIR; 05-01-2017 at 05:21 AM. Reason: More, الرجل في البيت(the man in the house) if you reverse this then في البيت ر&a
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Old 05-01-2017, 03:53 PM
Tanweer Tanweer is offline
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There are two separate grammatical issues involved in our discussion. I hope we will pay attention to distinguish these two issues.

Issue 1: Where do we place the mubtada when it is indefinite?
Issue 2: Can we alter the normal sequence of definite mubtada and shibhu jumlah khabar?

On page 74 of Key 3 book, it is written, “The mubtada may be indefinite….if the khabar is shibhu jumlah”. Then it is written, “In this case the khabar should precede the mubtada”.

It does not say that if khabar comes first (muqaddam) the mubtada must be indefinite.

There are everyday examples where the khabar is shibhu jumlah muqaddam, but the mubtada is definite. Whenever we mention a prophet’s name we say عليهِ السلام The normal order would be السلام عليهِ( Peace be upon him). We have altered it to “Upon him be peace !”. Just because the khabar came first, it does mean that we have to make the mubtada indefinite. Doing so would change the meaning, as we learnt from the example of “Fil baiti rajulun”.

Similarly, the normal order would be Al-mudiru feeha. But here the sequence has simply altered. So this example involves Issue 2. It has nothing to do with Issue 1.
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  #5  
Old 05-31-2017, 04:05 PM
MIR MIR is offline
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walaikum wassalam, br Tanweer
جواك الله خيرا أخي تنوير
شكرا لك , مرة أخرى
فقط
مير
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