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  #21  
Old 12-12-2012, 12:29 AM
benss benss is offline
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Assalāmou'aleikoum wa raHmatoullāh wa barakātouh,

I didn't find time to find an answer to the original question but as for
this :

Quote:
Originally Posted by arabic.study View Post
Assalamualaykum

What is meant by the alif not being a consonant but a long vowel?
it means that the "alif" is a letter of the arabic alphabet not a vowel (which are three: Damma, fatHa, kasra).
(Scholars of arabic language usually call/name this letter "lam-alif")
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  #22  
Old 12-12-2012, 01:51 AM
arabic.study arabic.study is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benss View Post
Assalāmou'aleikoum wa raHmatoullāh wa barakātouh,

I didn't find time to find an answer to the original question but as for
this :



it means that the "alif" is a letter of the arabic alphabet not a vowel (which are three: Damma, fatHa, kasra).
(Scholars of arabic language usually call/name this letter "lam-alif")
Wa-alaykumus-salam

I'm even more confused now. Brother irf2k says it's a long vowel and brother benss says it's not a vowel. I agree it's not a vowel.
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  #23  
Old 12-12-2012, 08:35 AM
hassan hassan is offline
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Alif is not a vowel. It is a 'letter'.
Brother irf2k means that Alif indicates here the long vowel on nuun. So instead of saying zahabna you will say zahabnaa.

Last edited by hassan; 01-11-2013 at 03:53 PM.
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  #24  
Old 12-12-2012, 09:27 AM
benss benss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arabic.study View Post
Wa-alaykumus-salam

I'm even more confused now. Brother irf2k says it's a long vowel and brother benss says it's not a vowel. I agree it's not a vowel.
'aleikoum salām wa raHmatoullāh wa barakātouh,

sorry brother to have made things confusion.
I think I understand where is the problem. Please tell me brother irf2k if I've misunderstood you.

When brother irf2k said that the "alif" is a long vowel, he meant "vowel" in
the english language (a,e,o,u,y). In other words, he meant that the sound
of this letter (the alif) is equivalent in english to the vowel "a" with elongation.
However, the alif is not a "vowel" like Damma, fatHa or kasra. It is a letter,
a special letter, but still a letter.

So:
  • when brother irf2k said it is a long "vowel" he meant "vowel" in the english terminology.
  • While, when I say it is not a vowel, I meant not a "vowel" in the arabic terminology.
I definitely don't like this term "vowel". There is a higher risk of confusion and error when transposing arabic concepts into english.

I prefer to say:

[*] "Hamz", "", "thā", "jīm"...."alif" (but better to say "lām-alif" here) are "Hourouf" (english transposition: we would say "letters" => here that's fine, no problem).
[*] "Damma", "fatHa", "kasra" are "Harakāt" (english transposition: we would say "vowels" => this transposition, I don't like because in english, "vowels" are
considered as letters (they are part of the alphabetic letters) but not in arabic ! That's why it makes things confuse !.

The incompatibilty is here:

  • (Step 1) we know that, in arabic :
Harakāt ("Damma", "fatHa", "kasra") = are not letters (as "bā", "jīm",...)
  • (Step 2) If we translate the termHarakāt into english:
Harakāt = vowel

  • (Step 3) But in enlish:
vowels = are letters

  • Conclusion:
Step 3 goes the axiom we've set in step 1.

Definitely, switching from arabic to english (step 2) and from english to arabic (setp 3) may produce misunderstandings or paradoxes.

Hope it's clear.
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Last edited by benss; 12-12-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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  #25  
Old 12-12-2012, 10:35 AM
arabic.study arabic.study is offline
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Assalamualaykum

Thank you brothers Hassan and Benss. Now I understand, alhamdulillah.
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  #26  
Old 12-12-2012, 03:33 PM
Tanweer Tanweer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benss View Post
(Scholars of arabic language usually call/name this letter "lam-alif")
Can you please write the word "lam-alif" in Arabic, so I can learn more about it ?

I am familier with the name "alif al-khanjariyah" (alif that looks like a dagger / small sword), but I am not familier with "lam-alif".

Many thanks.
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  #27  
Old 12-16-2012, 06:12 PM
arabic.study arabic.study is offline
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Assalamualykum

Quoted from page 2 of Book 1 Handout "The Arabic letters of the alphabet are twenty nine (29) in number, all of which, with exception of Alif, are consonants. Consonants means it has speech sound".

Alif is only used alone in الم ,الر etc. Its only other use is when it's suffixed to a مفتوح letter to prolong the vowel eg. مَا
.
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