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Old 04-13-2012, 06:10 AM
aashifrashad aashifrashad is offline
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Default simple negations with ما and لَيْسَ

Do both these negations mean Exactly the same???
to say,
"I do not have brothers"

لَسْتُ لِيْ إِخْوَةٌ



مَا لِيْ إِخْوَةٌ

Last edited by aashifrashad; 04-13-2012 at 06:12 AM.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:26 AM
mohanedshaikh mohanedshaikh is offline
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noo brother. to d best of mi ilm ?? is used to negate fial maadhi and ??? (to negate possession) it cannot be used with ?? : in this case laysa is more correct and second sent with ?? is grammatically incorrect. please correct me if m wrong.
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:36 PM
irf2k irf2k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohanedshaikh View Post
noo brother. to d best of mi ilm ?? is used to negate fial maadhi and ??? (to negate possession) it cannot be used with ?? : in this case laysa is more correct and second sent with ?? is grammatically incorrect. please correct me if m wrong.
No brother. It is the same thing.
This 'ma' is called 'ma alhijaziah' it works just like 'laissa'.
I'm not at home, so I can't give you the lesson number where it is explained.
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:55 PM
mohanedshaikh mohanedshaikh is offline
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..oops! may Allah forgive mee. but dis concept is new to mee .. please provide me with the lesson no. as wen u can. jzakAllahu w khairr
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:06 PM
irf2k irf2k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aashifrashad View Post
Do both these negations mean Exactly the same???
to say,
"I do not have brothers"

لَسْتُ لِيْ إِخْوَةٌ



مَا لِيْ إِخْوَةٌ
I did not notice what you have is 'I am not with me brothers'. It should be
لَيْسَ لِيْ إِخْوَةٌ
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:40 PM
irf2k irf2k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohanedshaikh View Post
..oops! may Allah forgive mee. but dis concept is new to mee .. please provide me with the lesson no. as wen u can. jzakAllahu w khairr
See Book 3 Lesson 4.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:31 PM
Tanweer Tanweer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohanedshaikh View Post
..oops! may Allah forgive mee. but dis concept is new to mee ..
You must have already seen such examples in Book 1.

For example: Book 1, Page 58, exercise 6 (Iqra), sentence number 2 :

أَلَكَ أَخٌ ؟ لاَ, مَا لِيْ أَخٌ.

So, what brother aashifrashad wrote in the second sentence was correct. His first sentence was wrong as brother irf2k pointed out.

Last edited by Tanweer; 04-13-2012 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:19 PM
mohanedshaikh mohanedshaikh is offline
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may Allah increase u all in ilm and forgive me my errors and guide us unto straight path jzakAllah
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:54 PM
fandanstan fandanstan is offline
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Why is it لَيْسَ لِيْ إِخْوَةٌ and not لَسْتُ لِيْ إِخْوَةٌ ?

Isn't "lastoo" reflective of the fact that they're not MY brothers, whereas "laisa" means not HIS?
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:30 AM
benss benss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandanstan View Post
Why is it لَيْسَ لِيْ إِخْوَةٌ and not لَسْتُ لِيْ إِخْوَةٌ ?

Isn't "lastoo" reflective of the fact that they're not MY brothers, whereas "laisa" means not HIS?
Usually, the confusion appears when one does not identify "Ism laisa" and "Khabar laissa".

So, if you say:
  • لَسْتُ لِي إِخْوَةٌ
    One would say, ok let's analyse the grammatical structure of that sentence and see if it makes sense: تُ is "Ism laissa", لِي is khabar laissa, but then what role إِخْوَةٌ is playing here ?? What is it marfū3 ?? Something is going wrong here Isn't instead إِخْوَةٌ Ism laissa, but then what تُ is doing here ! You see in all cases you've got trapped.
    Also, beyond the grammatical mistakes and as a consequence, the english transcription of your arabic sentence does not convey a meaningful sense as brother irf2k relevantly pointed previously.

So, a correct grammatical structure to your sentence, and so a correct translation would be instead:
  • لَيْسَ لِي إِخْوَةٌ
    Here everything make sense. The sentence has indeed a very common structure we came across many time with Ustādh Assif, that is:

    لَيْسَ = fi3l nāqis Jāmid
    لِي = harf jar ism majrour shibhu jumla khabar laissa
    إِخْوَةٌ = Ism laissa (it is indeed marfou3 ! , also the Ism laissa is here indefinite as it comes exceptionally after the khabar which is muqadām).


Looking alternatively to the affirmative form may help also to understand the negative form and its structure:

لِيْ إِخْوَةٌ [I have brothers.]
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Last edited by benss; 07-04-2012 at 12:32 AM.
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