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  #1  
Old 02-24-2009, 02:08 AM
mohammed mohammed is offline
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Default moods of mudari

salamualaikum

just some clarification inshallah.

In terms of the moods of the mudari-

Can someone explain why the grammatical explanation for ifaal al khamsa is ilif muthna dameerun mutasil mabni al sukoon etc etc

whereas for the mabnee it is nun al nisa dameerun mabnee al fatah etc etc

for the ifaal khamsa the focus is on the alif muthana, thus not the nun, whereas for mabnee its on the nun.

any clarification welcomed

jk

ws

mohammed
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2009, 01:09 PM
mohammed mohammed is offline
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salamualaikum

what does mahli mean?


jk
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  #3  
Old 02-24-2009, 06:04 PM
mohammed mohammed is offline
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Default clarification

salamualaikum

can a verb in maddi form be majroor?


2nd

verb can e maroof- indicative ie someone is doing an act

mansoob- subjunctive - what wld be best to sum up subjuncitve?

majzoom- jussive- what wld be best to sum up jussive?
for the mansoob and majzoom how do they differ in meaning . for example يأكلَ

يأكلْ
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  #4  
Old 03-04-2009, 07:38 PM
icarus icarus is offline
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Wa 'alaikum assalaam.

As you know, all the damaa'ir (personal pronouns) in Arabic are mabnee. As you also know, the af'aal al-khamsa are the 5 verb forms of the mudaari' (present tense) that end with oona (tajlisoona, yajlisoona), eena (tajliseena) and aani (tajlisaani, yajlisaani).

In these 5 verb forms, the damaa'ir attached are saakin wow (tajlisoona, yajlisoona), saakin yaa (tajliseena) and alif which is always saakin (tajlisaani, yajlisaani). All three damaa'ir are mabnee on sukoon.

The noon in these 5 verb forms is NOT a dameer, it is actually just the sign that the verb is marfoo'. Once the verb is mansoob or majzoom, this noon is removed from the af'aal al-khamsa. So that alone proves that this noon can't be a dameer.

On the other hand, the noon in tajlisna and yajlsna is indeed a dameer called noon an-niswa, which indicates femininity. And this dameer is mabnee on fatha. That is because it is mutaharrik (has a vowel sign), unlike the others mentioned above which are saakin (no vowel sign).

I don't know if that answers your question, brother. May Allah subhaanahu wa ta'aala increase us all in knowledge.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mohammed View Post
salamualaikum

just some clarification inshallah.

In terms of the moods of the mudari-

Can someone explain why the grammatical explanation for ifaal al khamsa is ilif muthna dameerun mutasil mabni al sukoon etc etc

whereas for the mabnee it is nun al nisa dameerun mabnee al fatah etc etc

for the ifaal khamsa the focus is on the alif muthana, thus not the nun, whereas for mabnee its on the nun.

any clarification welcomed

jk

ws

mohammed
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  #5  
Old 03-04-2009, 08:57 PM
icarus icarus is offline
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mahalli in the phrase fee mahalli raf' means in the place of the marfoo'. This is a term used, among other things, for words that are mabnee. When a word is mu'rab, we say that it is marfoo', mansoob or majroor. We cannot use these terms for mabnee words as they are fixed in one state and cannot change to show the different cases. We say that mabnee words are fee mahalli raf', fee mahalli nasb and fee mahalli jarr.

Here are some examples:

al-waladu kabeerun: al-waladu is mubtada' and because it is mu'rab, it is said to be marfoo'.

huwa kabeerun: huwa is also mubtada' but because it is mabnee, it is said to be fee mahalli raf'. It SHOULD be marfoo' because it is mubtada', but being mabnee, we can't call it marfoo'.


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Originally Posted by mohammed View Post
salamualaikum

what does mahli mean?


jk
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  #6  
Old 03-10-2009, 04:13 PM
icarus icarus is offline
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No brother, a verb can never be majroor. majroor is confined to nouns. Similarly, a noun can never be majzoom as majzoom is confined to verbs. That is why grammatically a noun can not end in sukun (jazm).

The mudaari' mansoob (subjunctive) of the verb is used in Arabic after 4 particles: an, lan, ky and izan. Sorry I don't have the Arabic script.

The mudaari' majzoom (jussive) of the verb is used in Arabic after 4 particles: lam, lamma, laa an-naahiya and laam al-amr.

These particles of nasb and jazm all have different meanings. So to simply show the difference in meaning between يأكلَ and يأكلْ is impossible without knowing which particle is responsible for making it mansoob or majzoom. So let's take an example of each:

MUDAARI' MANSOOB: يأكلَ

1. yureedu an ya'kula al-mowza - He wants to eat the banana
(ya'kula is mansoob because of the particle an)

2. lan ya'kula al-mowza - He will not eat the banana
(ya'kula is mansoob because of the particle lan)

3. dakhala al-matbakha ky ya'kula al-mowza - He entered the kitchen in order to eat the banana
(ya'kula is mansoob because of the particle ky)

4. huwa jaw'aanu. izan ya'kula al-mowza - He is hungry. In that case, he will eat the banana.
(ya'kula is mansoob because of the particle izan)


MUDAARI' MAJZOOM: يأكلْ

1. lam ya'kul al-mowza - He didn't eat the banana
(ya'kul is majzoom because of the particle lam)

2. lamma ya'kul al-mowza - He hasn't eaten the banana yet
(ya'kul is majzoom because of the particle lamma)

3. laa ta'kul al-mowza - Do not eat the banana
(ta'kul is majzoom because of laa an-naahiya)

4. li-ya'kul al-mowza - Let him eat the banana
(ya'kul is majzoom because of laam al-amr)


There are other elements that introduce the mudaari' mansoob (subjunctive) like laam at-ta'leel and hattaa, but the grammarians say that they are followed by a latent an that is understood but not mentioned, e.g.

kharajtu li-ashraba al-maa'a (li-an ashraba) - I went out in order to drink water

There are other situations where the verb becomes mudaari' majzoom (jussive) like jawaab at-talab and jawaab ash-shart, e.g.

ijtahid tanjah - Work hard and you will succeed

Sorry for the exhaustive explanation. If you already know most of this, hopefully it with benefit someone.

BTW brother, this is perhaps a question for the Book 3 forum as all these elements are discussed in Book 3.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mohammed View Post
salamualaikum

can a verb in maddi form be majroor?


2nd

verb can e maroof- indicative ie someone is doing an act

mansoob- subjunctive - what wld be best to sum up subjuncitve?

majzoom- jussive- what wld be best to sum up jussive?
for the mansoob and majzoom how do they differ in meaning . for example يأكلَ

يأكلْ
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  #7  
Old 03-16-2009, 11:20 AM
icarus icarus is offline
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Posts: 122
Smile correction to my last reply

All mentions of al-mowza in my explanation below should be al-mowzata. In my haste to show the difference between mansoob and majzoom, I inadvertently used al-mowzu which is ismu al-jinsi al-jam'iyyu (generic plural), when what I needed was the singular that ends in taa marboota: al-mowzatu. This difference is explained in lesson 3 of book 3.

My dear brothers and sisters, please do not hesitate to correct me if I say something wrong. We are all students and as such are prone to mistakes.

Learning Arabic language is indeed a humbling experience, and I pray that Allah subhaananu wa ta'aalaa helps us to keep this desire to learn it strong.



Quote:
Originally Posted by icarus View Post
No brother, a verb can never be majroor. majroor is confined to nouns. Similarly, a noun can never be majzoom as majzoom is confined to verbs. That is why grammatically a noun can not end in sukun (jazm).

The mudaari' mansoob (subjunctive) of the verb is used in Arabic after 4 particles: an, lan, ky and izan. Sorry I don't have the Arabic script.

The mudaari' majzoom (jussive) of the verb is used in Arabic after 4 particles: lam, lamma, laa an-naahiya and laam al-amr.

These particles of nasb and jazm all have different meanings. So to simply show the difference in meaning between يأكلَ and يأكلْ is impossible without knowing which particle is responsible for making it mansoob or majzoom. So let's take an example of each:

MUDAARI' MANSOOB: يأكلَ

1. yureedu an ya'kula al-mowza - He wants to eat the banana
(ya'kula is mansoob because of the particle an)

2. lan ya'kula al-mowza - He will not eat the banana
(ya'kula is mansoob because of the particle lan)

3. dakhala al-matbakha ky ya'kula al-mowza - He entered the kitchen in order to eat the banana
(ya'kula is mansoob because of the particle ky)

4. huwa jaw'aanu. izan ya'kula al-mowza - He is hungry. In that case, he will eat the banana.
(ya'kula is mansoob because of the particle izan)


MUDAARI' MAJZOOM: يأكلْ

1. lam ya'kul al-mowza - He didn't eat the banana
(ya'kul is majzoom because of the particle lam)

2. lamma ya'kul al-mowza - He hasn't eaten the banana yet
(ya'kul is majzoom because of the particle lamma)

3. laa ta'kul al-mowza - Do not eat the banana
(ta'kul is majzoom because of laa an-naahiya)

4. li-ya'kul al-mowza - Let him eat the banana
(ya'kul is majzoom because of laam al-amr)


There are other elements that introduce the mudaari' mansoob (subjunctive) like laam at-ta'leel and hattaa, but the grammarians say that they are followed by a latent an that is understood but not mentioned, e.g.

kharajtu li-ashraba al-maa'a (li-an ashraba) - I went out in order to drink water

There are other situations where the verb becomes mudaari' majzoom (jussive) like jawaab at-talab and jawaab ash-shart, e.g.

ijtahid tanjah - Work hard and you will succeed

Sorry for the exhaustive explanation. If you already know most of this, hopefully it with benefit someone.

BTW brother, this is perhaps a question for the Book 3 forum as all these elements are discussed in Book 3.
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