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Old 03-07-2010, 07:54 PM
halema halema is offline
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Default Confused on lesson 27

Salaam

I am studying lesson 27 and am lost! This lesson concerns ajwaf verbs (weak of ain). Can you please explain the ruling regarding this when changing a verb from past tense to present tense to order.

I do not understand what a mutaharik and sakin pronoun is and how they affect the verb.

Please explain in detail so I can fully understand.

Jazakallah Khair

Halema
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:26 AM
adilbarra adilbarra is offline
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Originally Posted by halema View Post
Salaam

I am studying lesson 27 and am lost! This lesson concerns ajwaf verbs (weak of ain). Can you please explain the ruling regarding this when changing a verb from past tense to present tense to order.

I do not understand what a mutaharik and sakin pronoun is and how they affect the verb.

Please explain in detail so I can fully understand.

Jazakallah Khair

Halema
bismiAllaah

assalamu alayke ukht Haleema;

As you know all good comes from Allaah, and all the praises solely belong to him only; may he be Glorfied, and Exalted.

I am not sure if you are asking the entire lesson 27 to be explained to you on the forums, because watching the video, reading the key, doing the excercies, and reviewing your notes will definitley assist you a lot in sha Allaah. The question you asked requires an explanation of the entire lesson, and I would strongley suggest that you go back to the lesson, and review it all until you understand each concept. This is the only I think will help you. I hope the All Mighty Allaah allows you to master this lesson, and the entire language; baraka Allaahu feek.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:06 PM
Aaishah Aaishah is offline
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Assalaamu ‘alaikum

Sister Halima – the following grammar definitions will help you understand mutaharrik and saakin pronouns, inshaa Allaah.

Knowing the meanings of the terms – not just the terms themselves – is a great help in understanding their usage. I have seen that each grammar term and expression in the Arabic language, precisely suits its role and function.

I quote from our Shaykh’s course-tailored dictionary which he has written especially for the Madinah Arabic Course named:

“A Glossary of Words used in Duruus al-Lughah al-‘Arabiyyah li-ghayri l-naatiqiina bi-haa: Arabic-English Dictionary” by Dr. V. Abdur Rahim


A) Quote Pg 51: (quoting what is relevant to this discussion only)

----------------------------


حَرَكَة

Grammatically:

vowel-sign such as fathah, dammah, kasrah.

Plural:

حَرَكَاتٌ

حَرَّكَ تَحْرِيكًا :


Grammatically:

To pronounce a letter with a vowel.

حَرْفٌ مُتَحَرِّكٌ:


a letter pronounced with a vowel such as:

مَ

نَ

كِ


as opposed to:


حَرْفٌ سَاكِنٌ :

i.e., a letter pronounced without a vowel like:


مْ

نْ


in:


كُنْتُمْ.


(End quote pg 52.)


------------------------------------------------------

B) Knowing the above will now help better grasp the definition given by our Shaykh of a mutaharrik pronoun and saakin pronoun which is given in Book 2 itself.

Quote from Madinah Book 2, English Key, pg 87, footnote (UKIA print):

----------------------------------------

“A mutaharrik pronoun is a pronoun which is followed by a vowel like:

تَ

تِ

تُ

نَ

And a saakin pronoun is vowelless, like the وْ in:

ذَهَبُوْا

All the pronouns in the maadi are mutaharrik, except those in:


ذَهَبَ


ذَهَبُوْ ا


ذَهَبَتْ


In the mudaari, only the نَ is mutaharrik and it is in:

تَذهَبْنَ

يَذهَبْنَ


(End quote.)

-----------------------------

* So a mutahharik pronoun is simply a pronoun that has either a fathah, dammah or kasrah on it.

* If it has no fathah, dammah, or kasrah on it, then it is going to have a sukuun on it. This sukuun tells us it is a saakin pronoun.

* A saakin pronoun is a pronoun with a sukuun on it.

(Saakin grammatically means there is no speech sound for it, unlike the ‘a’ sound for fathah, the ‘i’ sound for kasrah, and ‘u’ sound for dammah.)

I would also refer you to DVD numbers 2 and 3, for Madinah Book 1, by Brother Asif Meharali (which you can download for free, from LQToronto’s website) where mutaharrik and saakin pronouns are explained and practised very clearly, logically and visually.

In closing, our Shaykh Abdur Rahim has provided us with a wealth of knowledge in lesson 27 Madinah Book 2. This knowledge contains many grammar principles concerning verbs. They form the basis of understanding a huge amount of information about Arabic verbs, and knowledge of conjugation of vast verb domains, with minimum difficulty – bi-idhnillaah.

That is why lesson 27 and the ones following it were extremely important for me to do carefully and thoroughly. The verb patterns given, form a foundation for understanding multiple other verbs of similar construction or of the same ‘family roots’. If you grasp one set, then you have grasped the entire family-generation of verbs of this type, inshaa Allaah.

So try to go through each lesson slowly but surely. If you do that, you will understand insha Allaah, because there is no complexity in it.

If you do not understand something after having tried your best, don’t worry - you can always go back to it later, inshaa Allaah.

Wassalaam

Aaishah

Last edited by Aaishah; 03-26-2010 at 10:42 PM. Reason: missing word
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:39 AM
abooyousuf abooyousuf is offline
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In that case huma, hum, anthumaa, anthum, and ana all ends wihout vowel sign can be considered as sakin pronouns and the rest mutaharrik pronouns?
Still confusing!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:39 PM
Aaishah Aaishah is offline
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Assalaamu ‘alaikum

There should be no confusion inshaa Allaah when we carefully read the quotes - taken from our Shaykh’s “Glossary of Words Used in Duruus al-Lughah al-‘Arabiyyah”. and from Madinah Book 2.

The first quote contains the explanation of what a saakin * letter * is - within a construction made up of a weak verb + its ism.

The second quote contains the explanation of what a mutaHarrik * letter * is (i.e. the pronoun) - within a fi’l + faa’il construction.

This is because a weak verb + ism / fi’l + faa’il construction, are both made up of a number of letters – some of them are saakin and some of them are mutaHarrik .

The first quote points us to the saakin * letters * in the following construction :

كُنْتُمْ

It tells us the * letters nuun and miim * in this construction are saakin.

The letters nuun and miim here, are indeed saakin.

There is a clear sukuun (in red) over both the nuun and miim here:

كُنْتُمْ

We are not being pointed to the mutaHarrik parts of this construction.

The second quote explains the mutaHarrik pronouns.

So in a fi'l / faa'il construction like :

يَذْهَبْنَ
- some of the letters within it are saakin (like the dhaal and the baa - in red ) and other parts are mutaHarrik (like the nuun in blue- the pronoun which is the faa'il).

You will find what I have re-phrased here, is exactly what the quotes are saying.

Wassalaam



Last edited by Aaishah; 09-25-2010 at 10:32 PM. Reason: correction
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  #6  
Old 09-25-2010, 08:15 AM
abooyousuf abooyousuf is offline
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Assalamu Alaikum,

Sister Ayesha, Thank you so much for the effort you take to explain the things as crystal clear in many of your posts as well as in this post. May Allah reward you richly both in this world as well as in the next aameen.

I don't know what makes me confused about this concept of mutaharrik and sakin pronouns, may be you have to put it in layman's terms to make it unsertandable INSAHA ALLAH.

Let me first explain to you what are my preconceived ideas.

I have no problem in understanding a sakin letter and a mutaharrik letter. As you have clearly pointed out in the word "kuntum" I can easily see the sukoon on nun and meem and harakah on the ta. What confuses me is when you say this "tu" is a mutaharrik pronoun as ism of kana. What is the role of the sakin meem here. I used to think that the ism kana here is "tum" and since this ends with a sukoon it is a sakin pronoun as against the ism kana of "kuntu" which is "tu" and is mutaharrik. Will you please clarify this.

Morover when we say all the pronouns in madi are mutaharrik except is dahaba, dahaboo, and dahabat, I have no problem in identifying the pronoun in dahaboo as sakin because of the clearly visible sukoon on waw which is its attached pronoun, But the pronouns in dahaba and dahabat are mustatir and they are huwa and hiya. Why are they considered as sakin inspite of their letters are mutaharrik.

Similarly is my confusion with mudari in the forms yadhabu, tadhabu, and nuadhabu as their pronouns are mustatir and are huwa, hiya/anta and "nahnu" all are mutaharrik.

Hope you will be able to shed some lights on this and remove my confusion however silly it may be..

Jazakillahu Khairan

Wassalamu Alaikum
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  #7  
Old 09-25-2010, 10:46 PM
Aaishah Aaishah is offline
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Wa ‘alaykumus salaam wa raHmatullaah Brother Aboo Yousuf

Your thoughts are valid.

You have ventured into one of the intricate sciences of the noble Arabic language and one which illustrates its depth and perfection.

1) re: كُنْتُمْ :

اسمُ (كان) : تُمْ


After I wrote the last reply, I remembered a clear statement about ismu (kaana) in the above construction – mentioned by our Shaykh on the Advanced Qur’aanic Arabic Course: “Selections From The Glorious Qur’aan” .

It mentions ismu kaana as follows :

(in blue) :

quote: --------

وَاذْكُرُوا نِعْمَتَ اللهِ عليكم إذْ كُنْتُمْ أعداءً...

سورةُ آل عمران :103

إذْ كُنْتُمْ


“Where is ismu (kaana) ?

" تُمْ "

end quote ---------

Ref: DVD 2 Part B3, Lesson 4 - by our Shaykh Abdur Rahim.

****************

(I had given " تُمْ " - on the end of kaana, the same break-down as
" تُمْ " on the end of ذَهَبْتُمْ - in Madinah Book 2, lesson 8 - where the taa is faa'il (kaana takes an ism), and the role of miim = ‘alaamatu l-jam’ i. )


Edit: This is correct
.

Please see reply # 9 - important clarification received

***************

2) كُنْتُ :

اسمُ (كان) : التَّاءُ


The ism of (kaana) here is the taa and it is mutaHarrik – as you correctly state.

3)

ذَهَبَ
ذَهَبَتْ


Although the Faa’ils for these two verbs are both vowelled damiirs – huwa and hiya - then the Scholars of Arabic still classify them under the category of the saakin pronouns of raf ’.

But it is remembered that their faa’il is not actually a saakin pronoun, but a faa’il that is :
ضميرٌ مستترٌ جَوَازاً تقديرُه : هُوَ / هِيَ.

Brother Asif mentions these points on DVD 3 Part A1 for Madinah Book 1.

The same applies for the Damiir mustatir of ‘The Four Forms’ of mudaari ’ verbs you mention.

It is from the wisdom of our Scholars to classify the pronouns of raf ‘ this way.


زَادَنَا اللهُ علماً.

Wassalaamu ‘alaikum


Last edited by Aaishah; 09-26-2010 at 06:06 PM. Reason: add note
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  #8  
Old 09-25-2010, 11:23 PM
irf2k irf2k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abooyousuf View Post
Assalamu Alaikum,

Morover when we say all the pronouns in madi are mutaharrik except is dahaba, dahaboo, and dahabat, I have no problem in identifying the pronoun in dahaboo as sakin because of the clearly visible sukoon on waw which is its attached pronoun, But the pronouns in dahaba and dahabat are mustatir and they are huwa and hiya. Why are they considered as sakin inspite of their letters are mutaharrik.
Good observation regarding the mustatir fails, huwa and hiya, in third person masculine and feminine of imperfect conjugation.
The pronouns of mustatir fails are considered sakin by grammarians (as sister Aaishah pointed out). The mustatir fails are not mutaharrik, their estimations (huwa and hya) are mutaharrik.
The above rule also applies to perfect tense. When the fail is mustatir then is considered sakin. One should not consider the estimated pronoun of the fail to classify the fail.


Wasalam
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  #9  
Old 09-26-2010, 06:41 PM
Aaishah Aaishah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abooyousuf View Post

What confuses me is when you say this "tu" is a mutaharrik pronoun as ism of kana. What is the role of the sakin meem here. I used to think that the ism kana here is "tum"
Assalaamu 'alaikum Brother Aboo Yousuf

I have discovered that what I originally mentioned about ismu kaana - in your quote - is correct.

What you state about ismu kaana is also correct.

So regarding ismu (kaana) in :

كُنْتُمْ

1) We say ismu kaana is " تُمْ " - as a whole - as you say and understand.

2) We also say ismu kaana is just the taa - as I stated.

This is because the grammarians say the Damiir " tum " here, can be broken-down as follows :

كُنْتُمْ

اسْمُ (كَانَ) : التاءُ وَهِيَ ضَمِيرٌ مُتَّصِلٌ مَبْنِيٌّ عَلَى الضَّمَّةِ فِي مَحَلِّ رفعٍ.

وَالْْْْمِيمُ: عَلاَمَةُ الْجَمْعِ.


The second analysis is the way the grammarians speak of it and analyse it.

But there is no problem with the first analysis either (which is easier for those not familiar with such intricacies).

In the first analysis, " tum " would then be described as mabniyy 'alaa l-sukuun.

I sought confirmation of this point and I have received confirmation that this is the case regarding the two analysis.

Wassalaam


Last edited by Aaishah; 09-26-2010 at 07:02 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-01-2010, 05:40 AM
abooyousuf abooyousuf is offline
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بسم الله الرحن الرحيم
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله وبركاته
الآن فهمت فهمًا جدّا والحمدلله

My sincere thanks to sister Haleema for starting this post and sister Ayesha for making the things clear and to brother irf2k for the valuable comment.
So I can conclude
1. The term “mutaharrik” as applied to the pronouns of the verbs refers to the the harakah of the "ت"(except of course the sakin ت of “dahabat” which is for famininizing.)
2. Dameer mustatir resides (yaskunu) inside the verb. So usko-sukoon-se-rahne-de. (let it remain in peace). Therefore it is sakin.
3. Hence in mudari the only mutaharrik pronoun is the “na” of “yadhabna” and “tadhabna”


May Allah increase our knowledge aameen.

abooYousf
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