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Old 04-07-2012, 04:27 PM
Tanweer Tanweer is offline
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Default O you who have believed

A frequently used Quranic phrase is يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا , which is translated as "O you who have believed" [see any good English translation].

The phrase addresses to "You" (2nd person), but the verb "Aamanuu" is 3rd person (they believed).

Can anyone explain this mismatch ? Why is "Aamantum" (you believed) not used ?
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:37 PM
Abdullah Al-Narwej Abdullah Al-Narwej is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanweer View Post
A frequently used Quranic phrase is يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا , which is translated as "O you who have believed" [see any good English translation].

The phrase addresses to "You" (2nd person), but the verb "Aamanuu" is 3rd person (they believed).

Can anyone explain this mismatch ? Why is "Aamantum" (you believed) not used ?
I think you should ask dr. abdur rahim himself on his blog, very advanced question
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:47 PM
Tanweer Tanweer is offline
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Brother I felt hesitant to ask Dr. Abdur Rahim, because his time is very valuable, and I also thought that may be the answer was easy.

But if no one in this forum can help, then I will ask him InshaAllah.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:24 PM
benss benss is offline
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Sal‚mou'aleikoum wa rahmatoull‚h wa barak‚touh,

Hi LQtoronters !
I've been missing for a while (was in holidays )...well brother Tanweer, as for many questions posted in the advanced section, I have no precise answer, only kind of intuitions or things that I've learnt here and here and that I've partially (or completely) forgot.

I guess the hint for your question would be in the use of يَا أَيُّهَا and the understanding of the grammatical role played by الَّذِينَ.

Indeed يَا أَيُّهَا is composed of, among others, the particle of interjection (harf al-nid‚'), that one uses to address oneself directly (the interlocutor). I won't add anything further frightened of making mistakes, but I know that a mun‚d‚ has to come in pair with a harf al-nid‚' (but i remember that there is a trick in أَيُّهَا and that it is a two component words, and that the mun‚da was not the one I've expected when I came across the explanation to this construction).

I'm not at home right now, so i'll keep you in touch when i'll be in condition to give you more hint. Otherwise and as you said, Sheikh AbduRahim's (hadifahoullah) blog would be a good place to post in.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:17 PM
benss benss is offline
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SRB,

  • brother Abdullah Al-Narwej, i've thought for a plausible answer to your question of why the verb "amana" is in its plural form (3rd person) while Allah (3azza wa jalla) is addressing to the believers, that is any of them or to all believers (=> you already have here a part of the answer or a kind of).
  • Here is my suggestion (and Allah knows the best):
    First, i guess that what make you raise this question is the approximative translation you gave to يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا. Indeed, you wrote "O you who have believed", so that you made the correspondence between the you and the 3rd form of آمَنُوا, and then you probably fell like an "incoherence", right ?
    However one could also had translated instead: "‘ Believers". So, what i want to point out here is that this interpellation ( يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا) is aimed at "all believers" across space and time (depending on the verse=>a look to tafsir is needed), and that the use of the 3rd plural form in the verb somehow emphasizes the general scope of the message that Allah wants to convey. It is among the miracle of the Quran in its eloquence: Allah is addressing to all believers, and also when you read it you feel yourself like the one to whom Allah is "speaking". Personally, when i read such a verse it makes such an effect on my earth that it is like if someone, wanting to convey a message to a group of people (the believers), is shouting at the top of a hill saying "‘ Believers !", so the message is for every believers (3rd plural form) and in the meanwhile you feel personally and intimately concerned by what the speaker is going to tell (as far as you feel among the group this person is aiming at, that is the believers). Also, this stylistic expression (that is the use of the 3rd form) strengthen Belivers' sense of belonging to one community (oumma) as everyone is feeling like if Allah is speaking to him and also feeling that the message is also addressing to people like him, that is the belivers. It also make indirectly the distinction between those who believe and those who don't: obey to what Allah is saying after يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا you'll consider among those who believe inchaAllah.
    So, in conclusion all this ideas, sensations or messages wouldn't have been possible without the use of the 3rd form. Allah (3azza wa jalla) has indeed use the most appropriate words to convey its last perfect and holy message.

    Definitely, your question is a very advanced question (), and what I've wrote above is only from my own comprehension and experience, so take it with precaution. One need to have more knowledge on tafsir and bal‚gha to give you answers free of errors.

    Finally, and as I said, understanding the grammatical structure (or the syntax) of يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا helps you in answering your question and go in the same veine as what i wrote above. Indeed:

    يا: حرف نداء
    أي: منادى نكرة مقصودة مبني على الضم في محل نصب
    الهاء: للتنبيه
    الذين: بدل من أيها



And Allah knows the best.

P.S: by the way, did you post your question in AbduRahim's blog.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:03 PM
Tanweer Tanweer is offline
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"P.S: by the way, did you post your question in AbduRahim's blog."

Yes brother, I did. I will let everyone know if the Sheikh gives an answer.

Thank you for your good explanation. Let's wait and see what the Shaikh says.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:19 PM
mohanedshaikh mohanedshaikh is offline
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that was a good explnation frm d brother, evn i hav a similar point of u.. indeed allah has used best sentence structer and choice of words in quraan n that is soo obvious.

i feel had Allah used a second person masc that is antum: then thse addrssd wud have been then limited to only ppl of tht time (sahabas). instead Allah used hum .masc third person plural (gayab) which includes all d generations to comee. evn those not present at the particular time of the revlation. ..resttt Allah knows besttt.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:47 AM
benss benss is offline
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Sal‚mou'aleikoum wa rahmatoull‚h wa barak‚touh,

I was looking in the meanwhile to the hadÓth (or a narrative from a companion, maybe Ibn Mass3oŻd, not sure ) that precisely illustrates the main idea I've developped in my previous post, but I didn't find this narrative .

That Companion (May Allah be pleased with him) related that, in the time of the Prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him), when a revelation starting by "O you who believe..." was sending down, the Companions (May Allah be pleased with them) prick up their ears with attention, listening to the recommandation, because as the narrator (the companion that I don't remember) said, they knew that such ‚yat starting by "O you who believe..." was follow either by a obligation or an interdiction.

I remember that this narrative, when I read it and its explanation, perfectly illustrated how obedient were the Companions to Allah (3azza wa jalla) and His Messenger (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) especially when they were listening to a revelation from Allah starting by "O you who believe...", they were especially concerned and alerted to what followed.

They were indeed among the best people, the most eloquent, the most knowledgeable, the most obedient. Indeed, they understood better than any of us the meaning of يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا .

They indeed used to say: سمعنا وأطعنا, "We've listened and we obey".

May Allah make us loving them.
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